What about starbases?

BrainShock
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Re: What about starbases?

Postby BrainShock » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:58 am

I HATE :evil: Warp Field Interdicter in Moo2. Ruined many good games. It never made the game fun in any way and sure made the game suck when a AI got it.

In real life you would want a StarBase to :

Command and control.
Shoot at stuff.
Space dock.
Give a sense of well being knowing a StarBase is on guard.
Etc.

Someone put farm food? haha. Thats funny.

Something that might be fun is warp bubble disturbance detector satellite. And once you get a StarBase you can retire your satellite.
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Teleros
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Re: What about starbases?

Postby Teleros » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:42 pm

BrainShock wrote:I HATE :evil: Warp Field Interdicter in Moo2. Ruined many good games. It never made the game fun in any way and sure made the game suck when a AI got it.

I always rather liked it. Gave me time to mobilise my Antaran-capturing fleet or generally respond to an invasion instead of sitting there just 1 turn away and unable to help.
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Merlex
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Re: What about starbases?

Postby Merlex » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:18 am

BrainShock wrote:I HATE :evil: Warp Field Interdicter in Moo2. Ruined many good games. It never made the game fun in any way and sure made the game suck when a AI got it.


I wouldn't mind them if they worked a little differently. For them to work from several light years away, is a little much. Maybe if they destabilized warp bubbles inside solar systems. This way an invader would have to enter a system from a distance of roughly what Pluto is from the Sol, or maybe even as far away as the Oort Cloud, at sub-light. This should work both ways, in and out of the system. Of course Jump Gates could negate this disadvantage. Jump Gates if they are Babylon 5 style, would put your forces into warp or hyperspace at the gate. Enemies would also be able to exit a gate, and that would give the defenders a choke point to defend. Ships would have to use the gate, or take the long way in, in a system with a Warp Field Interdictor.
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Teleros
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Re: What about starbases?

Postby Teleros » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:46 am

Merlex wrote:I wouldn't mind them if they worked a little differently. For them to work from several light years away, is a little much.

Don't forget gameplay mechanics though: all the interdictor did was stop enemies getting into combat range of your planets. That could technically be inside a solar system ;) .
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Re: What about starbases?

Postby Merlex » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:02 pm

Teleros wrote:
Merlex wrote:I wouldn't mind them if they worked a little differently. For them to work from several light years away, is a little much.

Don't forget gameplay mechanics though: all the interdictor did was stop enemies getting into combat range of your planets. That could technically be inside a solar system ;) .


Makes sense, on the map it always looked liked, they were outside the system. I was just remembering a conversation we had, about starbase effects stretching out several light years. You convinced me it was a little ridiculous. What do you think about jump gates bypassing an interdictor? It could set up some interesting strategies, like blockades, and defensive choke points.
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Re: What about starbases?

Postby Teleros » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:28 pm

Merlex wrote:Makes sense, on the map it always looked liked, they were outside the system. I was just remembering a conversation we had, about starbase effects stretching out several light years. You convinced me it was a little ridiculous. What do you think about jump gates bypassing an interdictor? It could set up some interesting strategies, like blockades, and defensive choke points.

Yeah, but remember you need the fleet icon to be outside the system to make it visible :) . Regardless, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with multi-parsec effects like that: it seems daft to say it's "too big" when your fleet of moon-sized Doom Stars are packed full of Stellar Converters after all :D .

As for strategic options, I think that, in principle, the defender should get time to respond to a fleet invasion (hence the basic idea behind the interdiction field). However, I don't see why there couldn't be more options available. Consider:

-Small wormhole allowing you to send a few small ships through - not enough to flatten a defended planet, but enough to blockade etc. Countered by being a nuisance and out of support range.
-Hack the target Stargate / jump gate "frequency" so you can link one of your own to their system, and invade through that. Countered by being visible to both sides perhaps.
-Sabotage of a warp field interdictor, followed by invasion there. Countered by counter-espionage spies, rushed construction, etc.

However, choke points are basically impossible in a default game of MORE, because there won't be limited FTL travel routes - MORE is to use a "go-anywhere" hyperdrive.
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Re: What about starbases?

Postby Merlex » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:36 pm

Teleros wrote:
Merlex wrote:Makes sense, on the map it always looked liked, they were outside the system. I was just remembering a conversation we had, about starbase effects stretching out several light years. You convinced me it was a little ridiculous. What do you think about jump gates bypassing an interdictor? It could set up some interesting strategies, like blockades, and defensive choke points.

Yeah, but remember you need the fleet icon to be outside the system to make it visible :) . Regardless, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with multi-parsec effects like that: it seems daft to say it's "too big" when your fleet of moon-sized Doom Stars are packed full of Stellar Converters after all :D .

As for strategic options, I think that, in principle, the defender should get time to respond to a fleet invasion (hence the basic idea behind the interdiction field). However, I don't see why there couldn't be more options available. Consider:

-Small wormhole allowing you to send a few small ships through - not enough to flatten a defended planet, but enough to blockade etc. Countered by being a nuisance and out of support range.
-Hack the target Stargate / jump gate "frequency" so you can link one of your own to their system, and invade through that. Countered by being visible to both sides perhaps.
-Sabotage of a warp field interdictor, followed by invasion there. Countered by counter-espionage spies, rushed construction, etc.


Nice options, i agree.

Teleros wrote: However, choke points are basically impossible in a default game of MORE, because there won't be limited FTL travel routes - MORE is to use a "go-anywhere" hyperdrive.


Let me be more clear what i intended. A warp field interdictor disrupts warp bubbles, slowing ships trying to enter the solar system. Sol has a Babylon 5 style jump gate. The gate allows ships to bypass the interdictor. This is useful for freighters, visiting dignitaries, and allies. Problem is enemy ship can tap into the gate as well. So Earth stations a battle group at the jump gate to intercept ships coming through. This creates a choke point, mainly because few ships can exit the gate at a time. And depending on their size, they may have to come through single file. In Babylon 5, most capital ships had their own jump engines, but a interdictor makes the ships slower. Whereas jump gates bypass it.
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Re: What about starbases?

Postby BrainShock » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:05 am

Merlex wrote:Let me be more clear what i intended. A warp field interdictor disrupts warp bubbles, slowing ships trying to enter the solar system. Sol has a Babylon 5 style jump gate. The gate allows ships to bypass the interdictor. This is useful for freighters, visiting dignitaries, and allies. Problem is enemy ship can tap into the gate as well. So Earth stations a battle group at the jump gate to intercept ships coming through. This creates a choke point, mainly because few ships can exit the gate at a time. And depending on their size, they may have to come through single file. In Babylon 5, most capital ships had their own jump engines, but a interdictor makes the ships slower. Whereas jump gates bypass it.



This is a really good ideal
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Teleros
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Re: What about starbases?

Postby Teleros » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:40 am

Merlex wrote:Let me be more clear what i intended. A warp field interdictor disrupts warp bubbles, slowing ships trying to enter the solar system. Sol has a Babylon 5 style jump gate. The gate allows ships to bypass the interdictor. This is useful for freighters, visiting dignitaries, and allies. Problem is enemy ship can tap into the gate as well. So Earth stations a battle group at the jump gate to intercept ships coming through. This creates a choke point, mainly because few ships can exit the gate at a time. And depending on their size, they may have to come through single file. In Babylon 5, most capital ships had their own jump engines, but a interdictor makes the ships slower. Whereas jump gates bypass it.

Yeah I get the idea - it was where I got the "hack their jump gate network" idea from - but the trouble is I'm not sure it'd be that effective a choke point:

1. You can still invade elsewhere. If you attack Sol via the B5 jump gate there, the defender's fleet is waiting. If you attack Proxima Centauri through its warp field interdictor, the defender's fleet flits over quickly and, again, is waiting. At best, it means you attack on Turn 200 instead of Turn 204 or w/e.

2. Why build B5 jump gates anywhere important? It forces you to maintain a significant fleet presence far from the border. If you instead had no B5 jump gate & were just stuck with the go-anywhere hyperdrive, then enemies have to invade via your borders - your fleets there are thus in a prime position to not only intercept, but also counter-attack. Sure you can counter-attack via a B5 jump gate - unless the other guy turns their end off after sending a fleet through (eg by breaking it :P ), and again you can be in danger of being attacked & defeated at their end of the B5 jump gate.

Obviously it's different if you've got a naturally occurring wormhole you can't remove or w/e, because, well, you can't remove it :P .
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