Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

May Player
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Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby May Player » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:45 pm

I've seen a statement on another forum: "3D hasn't been done right yet. SotS, SotS2, Star Ruler. You quickly lose orientation"
In my opinion it is NOT accurate. What do I do to get a feeling where I am in the Universe (won't mention 3D Universe as the Universe is by nature 3D)? I simply use filters to display the sphere of influence of my Empire or Supply range etc. The Shape of the bubbles allow me to easily find orientation. SotS2 is awesome with this!
-Another thing, maybe the developers can use some sort of a 'compass' showing where is the 'top' of the galaxy? It could be displayed in one of the top corners and allow the 2D players to get get used to the 3D space.
-What else; using 3D map allows easily to rotate and 'zoom' in where the action is. Very useful..

Calavero
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby Calavero » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:25 pm

Yes, we're curious what you have to say about 2D/3D galaxy maps. We invite you to the discussion.
M.O.R.E. under construction

Tiberius
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby Tiberius » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:01 am

I don't mind 3D maps. The only thing that can be a bit troubling is that there are no clear "front lines". Especially as opponents gain more advanced propulsion systems, they can basically attack any of your systems at will.

Say you have a dozen star systems, it becomes impossible to defend since you must divide your forces among all your systems while the enemy can pick one at will and send the majority his forces there.

It would be nice if there were a way to make strategic bottlenecks somehow. MoO2 had the warp inhibitors (or whatever they were called) which slowed incoming attacks and gave you a few turns to prepare. That way you could consolidate your fleet and have a defensive force to meet the attackers.

Thangulhad
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby Thangulhad » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:39 am

3D maps are nice, but be hard to see/use on a 2D screen.

One feature MoO2 had that helped was to see incoming enemy ships via starlanes. Given freedom to move wherever you want, what will prevent someone from moving close to your star system in dead space, then be perched for a massive attack?
-Thangulhad

xThomas
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby xThomas » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:36 pm

scanners. better scanners added to your galactic scanning range. didn't work against stealth ships though. anyway, you could see enemy coming a mile off if they passed within range (doesn't matter the actual destination), and if they had slow drives, it was usually easy to intercept.

cjeddie2003
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby cjeddie2003 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:25 pm

Usually even in 3D it is possible to generate a sphere of control for the territory which has its size and shape determined by economic & military might/proximity to other powers. This is typically used to represent the borders of your race and where they meet with others. It would be easily understandable that this border be monitored by the NPCs of the galaxy and you get a quick message from 'border patrol' that your a ship has entered your territory. Combined with occasional updates on the invading ship's either sporadically by 'NPC tip-offs' or by real-time tracking due to probes/sensor grids of some kind.

As for fluidity of movement, it is unusual for a combatant in real terms to be able to attack with everything without having everything else vulnerable due to internal politics, crime etc.. It would lend itself quite well to involve internal strife into the mix.

Valeroth
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby Valeroth » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:37 pm

With the removal of starlanes, I would very much perfer a 3D map that I can rotate, zoom in and out of, and view from any angle.

With that said, you'd need an option to:
1. Have some key (like space bar) that automatically reorients the star map and centers on your capital... for those times you get lost.
2. The ability to store camera locations. I might want to always come back to a certain two or three views and might want to store them as F1, F2, F3, etc.

Also without starlanes to control, tech/upgrades should be aquired for systems that can detect incoming ships from further ranges. Also tech that will allow faster speed of allied ships within a certain range and slower speed of enemy ships in range.

Wodzu
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby Wodzu » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:29 am

I think 3D galaxy map is somewhat simmilar to the 3D battle. In update 8 you have shown a tactical view whic was very good I would also want to have such view when I watch the galaxy but it will be much harder to construct such view for some kind of galaxies.

Maybe I am to oldschool but I would really preffer to have 2D battle and 2D galaxy cause it gave the player better control over what he can do. As others said, if there are no starlanes there must be some sphere of control to push away a potential enemy ship. However this will not work for the two races that have colonies on planets in the same system. It will allow one race to attack almost instantly the other race...

May Player
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby May Player » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:16 am

@Wodzu - you're right, 2D maps are simpler to navigate and control, but 3D is so much more fun! ;)
It's not only the beautiful backgrounds you can see in 3D galaxy, but.. Do you really want to see the gorgeous ship designs flatted in 2D??

As for the spheres of influence and such we'll have to wait for Calavero to tell us more... I just know it is quite possible as I've seen it already (In other newer games)

Delpino
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby Delpino » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:21 am

I'm remembering the star map on "Frontier: first encounter" where you had a 3D map but there was a key that allowed you to put the camera instantly on top of the map and at a certain distance that would make the map look like a 2D map. This was great to get a sense of where were you but when you wanted to actually see the distances between systems you had to turn your camera so you could see the different "heights" of the systems. I think with such an option the 3D map could be much less disorientating.


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