Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby May Player » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:07 am

Geometrical shapes of galaxies could be fun..I could play one. One of my favorite galaxies is called 'High Heavens' (I've seen it somewhere else). All the civs start in the outer ring of stars and the very large middle of the galaxy is populated by magnitude of rich systems, but empty at first. The inner sphere is separated by large, empty space. All the Races have equal chance of expanding towards the middle, but it will only happen after they have the ability to travel across the empty expance dividing the outer ring from inner sphere. THEN, the wars start in the middle as all races want to grab the rich systems. Lots of fun! Use your imagination...

As to Star Citizen, I'm glad you like it. I admit I 'advertised' M.O.R.E. over there and I've seen players coming to this side too.. I see nothing wrong with enjoying various games. ;) backing one game does not exclude backing another one.

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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby Wodzu » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:13 am

As you guys mentioned, the disc galaxy might be a case of flat galaxy and when you flattern it even more (by setting z = 0) you have a flat galaxy in 3d environment. You do not have to change anything in game, not a single thing. Even formulas for the ship range, shperes of control, might stay the same.

I am not talking here about creating a separate 2D view.

May Player wrote:Even large companies produce games with just one orientation.. Either 2D or 3D or semi-3D like in Diablo 3 which is basically 2D which looks like 3D.. I haven't really seen anyone providing choices like this, has anyone?

Hell yea! Mate, haven't you played Civilization 5?:) (you did, you were saying that even you machine lags on a big map:) )It has separate 2d View which looks like a board game and is very friendly for low-end machines:) It is even better to switch to this view during computer turn to speed up A.I. thinking.

I must admit I was very positively surprised by seeing this view :)

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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby Tel » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:24 pm

Wodzu wrote:
Tel wrote:the idea is certainly good but simple it is not, all the aspects of the game must be converted to display a different way, the starmap is actually the main game screen, and it's not just the positions of the stars in it.
I do not understand what it is hard in that? If you have a 3D and you are reducing one dimension then you are reducing the complexity of the map. Besides, every 3D map is seen on our screens as 2D map anyway . Everything stays the same, you just put a constant value for Z dimension in galaxy generator. In game you are just viewing a flat map in 3D universe.

I assumed we want to convert a full-3D map to 2D, not create a pseudo-3D without the z axis, so all stars in 3D environment should be positioned in a new 2D map with their same distances to each other as in the same existing 3D map (and by existing I mean that anytime you can return to 3D view). So you would have to adjust the controls and the interface, how the mouse works etc to both maps, to see ships traveling, spheres of influence, borders, status icons and fleets and whatever else the developers might want to put on the main map, it can be done, but it's not simple in my opinion.

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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby Lupusam » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:05 am

Taking a 3d map, squishing it to 2d, and keeping the distance between each star the same as it was... so if you had stars aranged like the points of a dice, and squashed it flat, how would you keep the 'top' layer the same distances from each other, and the 'bottom' layer the same distances from each other, without messing with the distances between stars in the 'top' layer and in the 'bottom' layer? This kind of flip-between is never going to look right...

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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby May Player » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:32 pm

@Wodzu - Civ V they in fact, has 2D maps. I just almost forgot it as I never really use it. It takes away the entire feeling of the game (for me).
As per one of the updates, M.O.R.E. is going to have battles in 3D and in 2D (tactical). I'm curious myself if they are going to provide similar feature in Galactic view. There is way greater immersion when having 3D view. Yes, I agree, it is not always easy to see everything at a glance and need to rotate. Hmmm, maybe there could be something like in Mass Effect 3 - view of the Galaxy and on top of it coordinates of star systems. It looks not too bad ;) This could work with smaller maps, just it would be totally unusable for large maps, when having 1500 star systems and farther star systems would be 'behind' closer systems.
Beside that, it's so visually appealing when we can rotate 3D models of Galactic maps and 'feel' the Galaxy size and various nebulae.
Just look:

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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby knightdt » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:00 pm

Part of the advantage of being turn based is that if you have to rotate the view a little to see things from a better perspective, then you aren't wasting game time in order to do so.

If you can't rotate the view to a position to adequately see what you need, then how is an automatically generated 2D view going to do any better?

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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby BrainShock » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:33 am

I always wondered how being in deep space in real life and having to deal with getting my bearings strait would be. I always though it might be hard and maybe I would need a computer navigator to help me. Or some crap like that.

In EVE-online I was pleasantly surprised how quickly I adapted to the 3D galaxy map. I did not need any kind of reference crutch. I did not need to know a down or up. I just needed to see stars and that was all.

The EVE-online 3D galaxy map was huge.
If we evolved from monkeys? Then when do we stop being human and become something else?

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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby May Player » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:46 am

If you ever tried diving, then it's just the same thing; you are weightless and does not matter where is up or down. You just get your bearings by checking the special pointers. In space it is stars and galaxies. Then you always know where you are.

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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby kandiser » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:44 am

I think I'll probably only play flat 2D maps, because 3D is too complicated to navigate. And my orientation would suffer greatly.
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby Calavero » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:18 pm

kandiser wrote:I think I'll probably only play flat 2D maps, because 3D is too complicated to navigate. And my orientation would suffer greatly.

We've done many things to help you orientate in 3D galaxy map... but, if you'll preffer 2D you'll be able to do so in M.O.R.E. :) This is one of M.O.R.E. big advantages.
M.O.R.E. under construction

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