Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Wodzu
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby Wodzu » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:02 pm

Tel wrote:the idea is certainly good but simple it is not, all the aspects of the game must be converted to display a different way, the starmap is actually the main game screen, and it's not just the positions of the stars in it.


I do not understand what it is hard in that? If you have a 3D and you are reducing one dimension then you are reducing the complexity of the map. Besides, every 3D map is seen on our screens as 2D map anyway . Everything stays the same, you just put a constant value for Z dimension in galaxy generator. In game you are just viewing a flat map in 3D universe.

May Player
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby May Player » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:53 pm

I think it is not as simple as this. In large galaxy with 1500 star systems - they can overlap and then you do not see what's behind the front star.

knightdt
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby knightdt » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:39 am

What Wodzu is suggesting is not an alternate 2D view of the same galaxy; but rather the option in game-setup to create a 2D galaxy.

Taking the same galaxy and representing it both ways would be challenging, although not impossible.

Personally, I don't see the need for a 2D setup option. But, if there are enough people out there that want it then perhaps they can persuade the developers...

kspn
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby kspn » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:45 am

The only real Issue I can think of is that your ship range would change from being a sphere ((4/3)*Pi*r^3) to being a circle (Pi*r^2) with the associated reduction in potential star systems that a given range could get you to

Edit: It was something I kept running into in MOO & MOO2, I would only be able to access 1 star until I upgraded my fuel tech, others would be out of range because of the distribution.
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knightdt
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby knightdt » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:16 am

I bet the devs are going to use cartesian coordinates --- in which case ships range being R = sqrt(X^2 + Y^2 + Z^2) would be simplified to just R =sqrt(X^2 + Y^2) where X, Y, and Z represent the distance traveled in each dimensional direction. If you don't (or can't) move in the Z direction, then that term simplifies to zero, so the equation is actually the same - just simplified. Most (if not all) of the basic equations would continue to function normally.

May Player
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby May Player » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:22 am

I'm glad the devs are making the game in 3D, probably because I really enjoy 3D environments.. It's something like spacial orientation or whatever it is called..:) People without such orientation will get disoriented. They need instrument Training. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_disorientation
In the game it could as simple as placing a small galactic 'compass' and clicking on it will fix the galactic map.

Most people like 3D.. Look how well Star Citizen is doing on Kickstarter (17,000 and 17 days to go).. Or games like The Reckoning which has such beautiful 3D full of depth environments, or Dragon Age. Of course, there are people who hate 3D, but there are in much smaller numbers.

For 2D people maybe the devs could generate 2D maps, but with small budget it is hard to expect they will. Even large companies produce games with just one orientation.. Either 2D or 3D or semi-3D like in Diablo 3 which is basically 2D which looks like 3D.. I haven't really seen anyone providing choices like this, has anyone?

kspn
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby kspn » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:35 am

You are an evil person May..... Star Citizen looks cool....

I personally like both 2D & 3D galactic maps, I like 2D because it is easier to see EVERYTHING without having to rotate the map, but I like 3D maps because they are a more immersive experience. Our Galaxy is 2.5d? It is 3D but mostly in a single plane (which is quite thick admittedly, and that is ignoring the galactic core) but there are spherical galaxies as well :)
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May Player
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby May Player » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:27 am

@kspn - how come I'm an Evil person? Explain yourself at once! ;)

Actually, there is a way of satisfying 2D players and I think it's already build-in into the game. There are plenty of galaxies to generate, so 2D playes could simply generate a DISC galaxy. Such a galaxy is almost flat when looked at from above or below. How come nobody seemed to notice this before? Bubble galaxies for 3D players and Disc galaxies for 2D players (and plenty of other types for all the people who like both types)

kspn
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby kspn » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:30 am

@May you are Evil because I took one look at the game and went 'Ooo must have'..... and added a pledge for it. :D

The disc galaxy option is certainly a good idea, and/or having a z-width option that can be defined as '0' making a perfectly flat galaxy :)

I am also imagining Cubes and other geometric shapes, just for fun :)
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knightdt
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Re: Galaxy maps - 3D vs 2D

Postby knightdt » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:38 am

LOL - nice observation May

I also must say that I did throw in a little backing toward Star Citizen. From the creator of Wing Commander, can it possibly go wrong? High expectations, but a very different kind of game.

P.S. You are evil because you are pointing out another game worth putting money toward...

And before I was able to post, kspn already clarified.


But I have something to add: with the idea of geometric shapes, there could be a 'grid' game setup where all stars are setup like a cubic crystalline structure (don't get me started on body centered cubics vs face centered cubics...). I don't personally like playing this style of map, but I know it was an option in Space Empires and maybe people liked it in that game...


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