Alignment

VenomStorm
Ideas & Texts Creator
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:18 am

Alignment

Postby VenomStorm » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:38 pm

I have heard people mention racial alignment being associated with MORE, but I dont know if this is official. If not I'd really like to see this considered. It would be a nice addition to make the game more complex. I would like to see the full alignment scale added, not just a good to evil bar. Adding chaotic and Lawful would allow for some really interesting racial personalities.

knightdt
Ideas & Texts Creator
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:11 am

Re: Alignment

Postby knightdt » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:04 am

So far I've only seen Diplomatic screens that Include a rating system (from 1 - 10) for each: diplomatic relations, long term relations, and opinion. I'm not sure it is necessary to have a 'good' or 'evil' rating... That is kind of an abstract concept applicable to a relationship with gods (or God). As for ethics, different cultures would have different standards --- especially if they are different species. Whose standard of good and evil would we use as a rating system, or similarly whose standard of ethics?

I understand how having a rating system relative to universal ideals could help group races together as naturally forming alliances; but I actually would prefer that it was left open so that events in the game would direct different species to ally themselves at different times in varying and new ways and for unique reasons (I don't want to see the Skiteli and Zientzielari ALWAYS declaring war on each other just because one is religious and one is scientific and the developers decided that these are opposed.

If the good and evil or lawful and chaotic ratings are implemented, then I would like for them to be randomized (or at least randomize-able) rather than having a fixed association with each race. Whose to say the Skiteli can't be evil chaotic religious fanatics and ally themselves with the evil chaotic Zientzielari scientists in one game? Then maybe they again find themselves as allies for lawful good in another?

I would recommend that the randomization be balanced. For every point of good for one race, there must be a point of evil given to another... That way you won't find yourself choosing to be lawful evil in a universe with a disproportionately high number of chaotic good empires...

Then there is the idea of alignment changing over time based on action - that can create an imbalance in the game universe over time, but at least it started fair. Balance is always changing once the game begins anyway.

May Player
Ideas & Texts Creator
Posts: 664
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:47 am

Re: Alignment

Postby May Player » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:10 am

All the race statistics will be set during game setup. If you want random associations then you will select whatever you want... It's not that I know how M.O.R.E. will be but the devs indicated something like this in the presentation. Besides that, most 4X strategy are allowing this already.

As to Good vs. Evil whose standards to use? Well, it's pretty simple I think. Any race which is aggressive and do not respect other races is somehow evil. Extermination would be a good indicator.. ;)

Tel
Ideas & Texts Creator
Posts: 256
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Alignment

Postby Tel » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:18 pm

I suppose, because the Galactic Council will be in the game, aside from some overall laws accepted from the majority of the races like genocide after occupation, use of nuclear-chemical-biological weapons, aggressive terraforming, sun manipulation, altering the trajectory of asteroids for orbital bombardment -planet killers- and such stuff, there must be some alignment present in every race (in the form of how likely they are to use all of the above or abide by the rulings of the Galactic Council in whatever else is decided, banned, enforced etc....

VenomStorm
Ideas & Texts Creator
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:18 am

Re: Alignment

Postby VenomStorm » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:58 pm

Tel wrote:I suppose, because the Galactic Council will be in the game, aside from some overall laws accepted from the majority of the races like genocide after occupation, use of nuclear-chemical-biological weapons, aggressive terraforming, sun manipulation, altering the trajectory of asteroids for orbital bombardment -planet killers- and such stuff, there must be some alignment present in every race (in the form of how likely they are to use all of the above or abide by the rulings of the Galactic Council in whatever else is decided, banned, enforced etc....


That's what I was thinking. Plus I would like the racial alignments to be random as well. Like I said, these would be the racial personalities, or the personalities of those in charge. That way every game could be completely different.

JPTS
Ideas & Texts Creator
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: Alignment

Postby JPTS » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:26 pm

VenomStorm wrote: That's what I was thinking. Plus I would like the racial alignments to be random as well. Like I said, these would be the racial personalities, or the personalities of those in charge. That way every game could be completely different.


I believe that is the point here. The alignment would reflect the ambassador/ruler and could change. In one game there could be an Ubarros who would make a deal with an evil race in order to get money. But in another game the representant of the race might decide that it is not acceptable because many would die for his profit.

Just like humans, the aliens will problably have very different people among them.

JTL
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:34 pm

Re: Alignment

Postby JTL » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:21 am

Alignements in themselfs are a bad decision because a Race of Good will never Attack others or even build Weapons for such a purpose.
Evil would anihilate themselfs in the latest with Nuclear Power. I suspect they even could reach such high tech with all the killing they would do.
Chaotic could never be a Power because they need Laws for a Nation and when they dont have Laws/ Organization than they cant live together even as Familys.
The only Races / Nations who could actualy exist are Lawful / Good. So it would be a rather boring Game.
OK neutral Races / Nations could also exist so you only have Lawfull/Neutral , Lawful/Good , Neutral/Neutral or Neutral/Good Races and thats not better.
Neutral Races would be clearly weaker than Lawful and Good Races because of the many Internal Conflicts and seperations.

As all can see Alignements are a bad design decision. They could only work when such alignements arent serious but then what reason do they have then ?

May Player
Ideas & Texts Creator
Posts: 664
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:47 am

Re: Alignment

Postby May Player » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:27 pm

JTL, I totally disagree with various statements you made. The best example is Earth itself. The various nations have different 'alignments' and somehow they grow and progress (more or less).
'Race of Good will never attack others or even build weapons'. Really? Of course they will develop weapons to defend themselves just not to perish.

The assumptions about Evil or Chaotic races are also totally wrong. There are many dictatorships out there or nations with no sense of democracy or freedom and somehow they exist and grow. Just look at the population boom statistics. Surprisingly nations with not so good alignments have the greatest growth and still, they don't destroy themselves. Yes, they kill lots of own people and others but they still grow, arm themselves and who knows what crazy ideas will be born in their sick minds. Lots to say on this topic...

On a galactic stage there is no reason it should be different. The bottom line is - there is never a race with total alignment of all its members. There is always opposition in any government style. Sometimes alignments will change due to the power strugles within the empires or dictatorships. If the spy system is going to be implemented skillfully, then the 'alignment' of treatening empire could be changed or adjusted to own preferences. Spy games.. it's always exciting what is happening behind the closed curtains...

VenomStorm
Ideas & Texts Creator
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:18 am

Re: Alignment

Postby VenomStorm » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:23 pm

Plus the alignments do not have to be so extreme. You would make their alignments effect the strategies, but it would not be to the complete detriment of the race. Maybe every once in a while a chaotic race would burn themselves out in a rage across the galaxy, but it wouldn't be the case every time I think. Alignment would just create different strategies for each race to use so they do not always do the same thing.

May Player
Ideas & Texts Creator
Posts: 664
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:47 am

Re: Alignment

Postby May Player » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:12 pm

Exactly! The alignments do not need to be extreme. They could be the starting point for players. It will depend on the politics implemented by the leader and the actions. In multiplayer it probably won't matter that much. Although, if the points system will be implemented and during game setup you spend point to have 'Good' alignment to get that extra edge in political or trade negotiations, but then in the game your actions are purely bad, then your alignment (and the benefits) of being 'good' should be forfeited. If you are good or bad, your actions should maintain the alignment for such predisposition.
Your actions determine who you are.


Return to “Races”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests