What aspects should be same/different between the races?

GoranXII
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby GoranXII » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:15 pm

It would be entirely possible to develop rockets and computers without nuclear technology though.

Sturmir
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby Sturmir » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:02 am

Lupusam wrote:The question becomes "How much does a change in how a race views the world, the resources available, or the cultures that developed in their homeworld, change what they would be able to invent?" yet as science progresses it becomes interlinked, so for any species in the space age to be able to ignore subsets of science would be odd... different species would make different choices with what they know, or what they have the resources for will change what would be viable to pursue, but gaping holes like "We never even considered the concept of anti-gravity, how do your engines work again?" would feel annoying.


Odd to humans, but Science is more then just going "Oh, I wonder how something could fly." It's a collective wide-ranging field of studies about every aspect of the universe. Yes, if you could hover naturally, would the concept of Gravity have any meaning to you (say you floated around in a nebula.) Or If your skin was harder than any form of steel on earth, would you really go: "Oh, Let me put myself within a shell of more of myself." because, especially if you are an apex-predator, you wouldn't need that sort of advancement until you reach the age of technology. Yes, Armour may be adapted, but it could be the transition from how mankind used body armour, then stopped all together during two wars (WWI, and WWII) because they were ineffective and costly to produce, and forget the concept all together during an expanse of peace. The concept of society as we know it would be wholly unknown to a species who doesn't form similar societal structures (IE: A Collective mind, or a Hive.)

People mentioned evolution quite a bit in the defense of this, however, in Nature, when a bee kills an ant, does it develop a stinger to attack the bee with similar offensive capabilities? not really. A million years of evolution doesn't cause uniformity amongst species, neither does technology, and neither does culture. Uniformity of adapted design is only caused by the destruction of one species entirely for the favour of another species. Mankind can count as a species in this response, and yet it is vastly different amongst it's people in virtually every mental and physical aspect. Would space not generate these vastly different traits, and views? Ways that species approach a problem, and with access to different materials in similar settings, change the way they do things. A species may develop computers and rockets without nuclear energy as the previous poster said, yes. However, drastically change the setting alone in the environments they operate and different chemicals have different properties.
In a water world: Would the concept of fire have any real meaning? Magma vents certainly, but plasma flow and burning substances to convert to heat would be foreign. Yes, in space this concept may be discovered after observing the effect in a meaningful way, but it still doesn't mean that it wouldn't be viewed with a different sort of outlook and applied to their society the same. They wouldn't go "Hey look, we can chop down a tree, toss it in a boiler and create movement." They would go "Well, that's interesting. It creates heats, and releases carbon... I wonder how we can apply this knowledge to our current technology."

When mankind first discovered radioactive materials, we didn't start building nuclear reactors with it. Access alone to new materials or exposure to how it is used doesn't mean it will be adopted. What if they have something better? They might experiment with it, but widescale application to non-useful technology wouldn't be adapted.

Keeping research general and technology very specific I believe is the best approach. Just because humans have Cold Fusion, doesn't mean every race would be able, or even want to adapt it. If a crystalline race can create beams out of their crystals using an unknown energy, doesn't mean humans will start culturing crystalline cells of the entity to create the weapons. (They may experiment and improve themselves with it, but actual adaptation is impossible or impractical. Especially for wide field deployment.) the same goes for when a creature "grows" spaceships, doesn't mean humans could replicate the process in any meaningful way beyond a study of bio-engineering and learning something new. (Perhaps finding a new way to create textiles for cheaper.)

May Player
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby May Player » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:15 pm

I think the possible truth is in the middle - some techs/knowledge can be adopted, but some cannot. My guess the devs are going in this direction already; somewhere in their responses they have the explanation for race specific techs and weapons/structures. For example; knowing that some race uses telepathic powers to control something will not let you use that knowledge in any practical way as your race does not have such powers etc etc. Still, a lot of basic science would be the same as the physics in our galaxy is probably the same so there will be the same basic tech tree in M.O.R.E.

Starman
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby Starman » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:46 am

An unique research tree is the way to go until people will ask to have for their race what others have and then there should be the option to play with all techs or something and that will cover it but i think that will break the game.

My answer would be all different and few to none similar because this game isn't about sameness of things and that's what i love the most about it.

Even the Velmenese and the Mechimerian despite both being machines and both using wireless data transfer they wouldn't by any means feel similar at all.
Different research tree , different frequency for their data transfer , different operating systems not compatible between eachother , at best they'll naturally like eachother for being both machines once a consensus is reached that is.

So nope , no similarities if possible because I'm sick and tired of playing the same generic race with different flags , clothes and names every time and think I'm playing something different when I'm not.

Compared to that in M.O.R.E. i'll play real aliens 8-)

Teleros
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby Teleros » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:47 pm

Starman wrote:An unique research tree is the way to go until people will ask to have for their race what others have and then there should be the option to play with all techs or something and that will cover it but i think that will break the game.

My answer would be all different and few to none similar because this game isn't about sameness of things and that's what i love the most about it.

I think the plan is that the basic tech tree will be identical, but each race will have its own unique bit attached somewhere. Ie like MoO2, everyone can research Stellar Converters, but only humans can research Hyper-Competent Diplomats or whatever.

Which makes sense really - the laws of physics are the same for everyone after all, so lasers (or whatever) are going to make good sense for everyone.

Starman wrote:Even the Velmenese and the Mechimerian despite both being machines and both using wireless data transfer they wouldn't by any means feel similar at all.
Different research tree , different frequency for their data transfer , different operating systems not compatible between eachother , at best they'll naturally like eachother for being both machines once a consensus is reached that is.

I think you'll find the Mechimerans & Velmenese sufficiently different :) .
Clear ether!

Starman
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby Starman » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:04 am

Sounds like you wanna make the research tree DW style and I'm down with that.

I think you'll find the Mechimerans & Velmenese sufficiently different :)


Glad to hear about that :)

But let us think a step further and take each of them and see what weapons they'd use instead of only lasers.

Ameslarians - Telepathy and all kinds of psionic based weapons

Arranos - Ultrasound weapons from little pistols to giant cannons who shatter enemy ships and colonies

Brutas - Crude but effective rockets who deal a lot of area damage too , ability to ram their ships into the enemy's

Felidians - I don't know why but they feel like a sneaky , surprise attack type of race to me so let's say all sorts of traps like space mines , rigged ships who look harmless in space , something along these lines

Hvalurs - Asteroid chunks for projectiles at first , close to lava heated asteroid chunks and then somekind of infected asteroid chunks who are like a biological weapon of mass destruction too ( if the explosion didn't get you the infection surely will )

Lithodoros - Lightning weapons of all kinds from pistols for the troops to massive lightning cannons for the ships , maybe even point defense weapons who use crystal shards

Maa-ar - X ray or UV lasers maybe pointing at how they see in the dark or something and the ability for their ships to come close to enemy ones and use a nasty driller to wreck it apart ( I got the idea of a driller because they are an underground race and it would make sense )

Mechimerian - Maybe mass driver types of weapons would make sense to them ( maybe it's just me but they distantly remind me of the Geth )

Myrmecians - Chemical warfare all the way and many kinds of chemical weapons , imagination is the limit

Nosnarians - Dark matter , dark energy weapons of all types maybe a superweapon who opens a nasty black hole to suck in enemy ships too , it would really fit for them

Olagarroans - Super condensed heavy water cannons or something , bioluminescent weapons who act nearly like a laser but are more bright , more cohesive , self powered ( say those cannons are actually living beings ) and they deal really heavy damage , this race would also be really good on shielding too I think

Proteans - Still chemical weapons but of a different kind , maybe pacifying types of weapons like : goo nets who trap entire ships , goo mines and bombs who render hit targets immobile and good as dead and nasty acid based weapons who burn armor the best

Raefillis - Gas based weapons who aim to kill the crew of a ship more than damage the ship itself , nebulae-like type of weapons who screw around with propulsion and weapon control , corrosive gas cannons , something like that

Skiteli - Chants of death making them more aggressive in battle , larger number of ships in fleets than others though weaker , ion based weapons

Skribdis - Very maneuverable ships , closer reaching weapons but very high damage , maybe all sorts of torpedo weapons

Stjornurians - Plasma all the way in all shapes and sizes and energy-like ships hard to bring down with usual means

Terrans - Lasers and concussive weapons and whatever Terrans think it will work best but not using what aliens use

Ubarros - Tentacle type of weapons maybe who can grab and choke enemy ships to death ? tentacles who reach enemy ships from a distance and only the touch deals heavy damage ( their style of long range weapons )

Velmenese - Prototype weapons found nowhere : hologram-like types of projectiles , cables who attach to enemy ship and electroshocks the enemy ship when in close range , EMP based weapons all the way

Zientzielari - Another kind of bioluminescent weapon class like the Olagarroans but different in rest , still partially living cannons and such , ships who look like partially made of dirt mixed with a crude form of construction yet extremely deadly ( I picture them having ships like the Collectors from Mass Effect , something along those lines )

So, I think a research tree could be made with their specific weapons in mind first and the other weapons other races have to be used like captured technology , prototypes etc and you'd get a special building for everyone too : the Prototype Research Lab or Prototype Factory , whatever you call it.
Capturable enemy weapons and technology from the debris of a battle , or buying it from them , albeit hardly this way , or if there's a galactic market buy it from there and of course trying to steal it with agents.

Not everything the enemy uses can be yours , even so it should be just a modified application to work with your weapons and it would be more like a mix between what your race has first and what enemy weapon you captured.

Say you play the Hvalurs and got yourself a captured concussive tech from the Terrans you can develop exploding asteroids.
And so on.

But i figure it's gotta be a lot of work this way and nobody's asking for the impossible because you people are already pulling off a game bigger , meaner and hopefully better too than the current and past generation titles.

I'll be really happy with the research tree you have in mind anyhow :D

Calavero
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby Calavero » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:58 am

Great ideas Starman. I think we can go back to this post while creating race weapons :)
M.O.R.E. under construction


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