What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Calavero
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby Calavero » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:57 pm

Sure ;) I only wanted to explain why tech brach will stick to dedicated races ;)
M.O.R.E. under construction

xThomas
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby xThomas » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:31 am

Only read the 1st page so far. But one single large tech tree with variations for each race actually mirrors the great RTS Age of Empires series, and mirrors the civilisation series too. Some of my favorites, the little things make each civ play much different from the others.

killjan
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby killjan » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:32 pm

Unfortunately, this is not AoE, this solution can be simply ridiculous.
When the race of space-giants have the same tech-tree as some nano-race, or flora-race.

xThomas
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby xThomas » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:08 pm

A race of space giants and a race of little insects both need concepts for research, manufacturing, porpulsion. A generic research lab, or automated factory seems pretty simple enough that there is really no need for a unique one of these for 20 different races that all do the same thing.

At the same time, up to a point I do feel what your saying - But I believe that if they introduce a uniquely different tech tree for 'every' space faring race in the game, some people just won't be able to keep up, even if feature creep didn't sneak in. And I would bet that'd both delay the game release unnecessarily and make balance hell at the same time.


As I see it, the main tech tree would be concepts that every race should at least be able to see and understand. Research Labs, Factories, Environmentalism, Nuclear Power, Astronomy for example are thing sI see little need to have their own special version for every single race, although I can see a floral race having a different enviormentalist tech, a Psilon style race having different research, a flying race being able to understand space better being they already deal with something like that (ie alkari).



Now for those different aspects between the races.. A race of insects should not be able to take over giant factories, how would they work the controls? Heck, this goes for most any race. There should be a warm up period for captured buildings of other races, where they start at a low efficiency and production but can reach an acceptable level soon enough, depending on the race.


So.. Example, maybe different races can have different warm up period. IE: A meklar styl race with 4 arms would have little trouble using the factories of a people with 2 arms, but the same race may have extreme issue with an aquatic race that put those factories underwater where they would both move slower and rust.

Wodzu
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby Wodzu » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:21 pm

You know what guys, race differences are my main concern about M.O.R.E. If two races will be totally different then balancing them out will be extremally hard. It is not a coincidence that most of the games is focused only in changing the race outlook and some basic stats. It is so much easier to balace such races and to implement game mechanic.

Sturmir
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby Sturmir » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:26 am

Hello! Greetings fellow backers and enthusiasts, I made an account simply for replying in this single thread.

I believe races should have different tech trees with a common pool of general knowledges due to the sheer fact that earth alone, up til the domination of one culture (Western Civilization) had quite a different path for technological advancement for nearly every continent.
The general technological advancements were there, certainly, but it was how each culture adapted with the access to the global resources. Chinese had gunpowder for thousands of years, but it wasn't used to make rifles until Europeans adopted the formula. If the Chinese would have done it first, they would have likely dominated the world, and mandarin or Han would be the spoken language of the world today. (As if it wasn't already, Amirite?)
Access to steel alone changed the way the world function and cities were raised, as well as the introduction of Concrete as a prime material, not the adhesive.
Now think about this from the aspect of the races of the world, the environments they inhabit, and other key traits like that.
If we got twenty races, I will assume they are all unique in their own way, so let me do it this way.
Every race needs to approach a common pool of resources in roughly 5 ways.
The production of Food, the Production of Energy, the Production of Building Materials, the Production of Weapons, and Finally Transportation and Communication. (I tie communication and transportation as the need for speed in the ancient world was one in the same. For the delivery of goods, and information from one point to another, and it has always remained that way even onto our new realm of technology)
Human, Carbon species with an Nitrogen, Oxygen and Carbon rich atmosphere. All life on Homeworld is Carbon based. Humans use Hydrocarbons for both lubricating and powering most of it's planetary assets, but by this time in M.O.R.E. they will likely have advanced to mostly Solar, Wind, and Fusion (and beyond) technologies. Humans rely a lot on Hydrocarbon powered missiles with an explosive package stored within either Nuclear or conventional in design, Bullets which are projectiles fired at high speeds, likely by this time: Railguns which are projectiles propelled at higher speed using magnetic coils and an abundance of energy, and Lasers/Plasma (if directed by magnetic coils or focused with futuristic crystal structions with power problems solved for insanely high energy consumption)
Now a Crystalline being, likely evolved on a world which promotes that sort of existence. Since we're going for roughly the same sort of living environments (Rock, Ice, but not gas.) we can assume this race evolved on an earth-like environment (Gravity being roughly similar across all habitable planets, Up to twice earths gravity and down to nearly no gravity and an atmosphere of some sort) but would have access to different sets of tools, a different mindset, a different method of energy production, weapons, transportation and communication. So we'll assume this crystalline being grew up on a planet with an ice-like environment (Crystals, Ice, get it?) Likely enough Hydrocarbons wouldn't be present in this environment at all, so burning substances wouldn't become the method for energy production. We'll also assume that they absorb energy from the sun, or get it from radiation or heat given off by the planet due to radiation. The need for food is already solved then from a global standpoint, and thus no longer a pillar in the basic building block of technology. Sound, Light and Radiation would be the biggest fields of research for these creatures, because Crystalline structures operate extremely well within these fields of study on earth. Do these creatures float as well? Do they stomp around like crystal elementals? Lets just say they walk around to keep everyone on the same plane of travel as well. Would these creatures adopt the wheel even? Probably later on in development, but since round isn't a common crystalline structure and a world made of the same basic structure as it's sentient inhabited populus wouldn't promote original thought like that all too well. So until the invention of the wheel, walking by foot is common until the invention of a sort of wheel and motorized vehicle (or perhaps bigger crystalline entities on the planet)
In the end though, cities would likely be razed in Monolithic and Pyramid style fashion using crystal as well. You may even ask "Why crystal?" well.. why did Humans use wood for the longest time? Compared to a Crystalline entity, a cousin compound of the crystal composing them, would be the same as the cousin compounds as the carbons making up the Tree. Except their cities wouldn't burn, just shatter. Sound would become the weapon of choice. Eventually metal would become smelted and they would advance to the stage where laying down semi-conductors using silicon and energy would happen. (it's not a far thought to think that they would achieve what we have in much less time due purely to their nature.) The concept of using missiles would be entirely unknown to these people. Yes, projectiles would be, as they would have evolved in trying to make each other shatter, but projectile wouldn't be powered the same way. They wouldn't have gunpowder to stuff behind a metal case and launch metal or lead at their fellow people. Communication using larger specialized crystal towers which resonated messages would fill the sky, until Radiation was mastered and the principles of electromagneticism was fully known, allowing for Radar, radios, and other forms of things like this. Their species when entering space would likely have used a giant rail system to propel their early ships into space, and with the abundance of their building blocks in space alone, begin to construct spaceyard, stick around the star gathering more energy and moving off to explore, and develop seperately.

Now this was rather long especially for one species that is entirely hypothetical. However, this shows that even the basic foundations of what we consider to be technological advancements would be drastically different by this race alone. To balance it?

Hulls don't get additional armour beyond shields.
Shield technology +++ (likely represented by a 100% increase in shield power)
Lasers +++ (Represented as a 100% increase in laser power)
No Missiles.
Projectiles + (Propulsion of shards towards an enemy ship. Perhaps as a basis for troop drop pods into enemy ships?)
Solar energy generation.
The ability to gather energy from residual space radiation (To which there is quite a bit)
Increase production on worlds like their own, to the point of nearly 100% increase in output compared to other colonisation worlds.
while nearly no production output on worlds not like their own. When invaded a new world, unless a slave population operates machinery the machines get destroyed and start anew.
The ability to destroy the atmosphere and seed the planet with crystals, converting it to a planet like their own...
and countless other technology. Hell to make up for it, a human who captures a converted world or a world like their own, gets a massive production debuff while gaining science increase. (I'm sure the humans observing that sort of world would be absolutely fascinated. Hell, for a good comparison, think of Tiberium, and the Scrynn but more crystally.)

However, I do have to go but I could continue to post and defend this idea and show how different races based off slightly different world changes could evolve and change, and how vastly different their tech tree would be because of a small or major difference in environment alone would be.

Tel
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby Tel » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:12 pm

The concept of similar technologies is not so irrational as it seems. On earth, whenever a nation adopted a revolutionary weapon, most, if not all of the others followed very fast.
The moment a crystal entity loses a ship by weapons that ignore shields, they will understand the uses of armor (or die trying).
So, overall, every successful paradigm will be followed by everyone as fast as possible, if possible.
If you're telepath, or if your body is a mile long, or if you can live in vacuum, such things are race specific, only you can invest and develop more on those, but without ignoring the base knowledge.
If you do it, I will try and do also, if I can, it's survival. The law of evolution.

Sturmir
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby Sturmir » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:25 am

The problem is not all those nations accepted that paradigm. If so, than earth would be much more diverse then it is today. The Aztecs, Mayans and Incas were wiped out completely by the Spanish (as civilizations) and exposure alone to the technology wasn't enough to allow adaptation. Even within different nations today technology is adapted differently. Not everyone flies B-2s. Sure, they design similiar weaponry which operate on similar principles, but not everyone goes at the same problem the same way. Access to materials alone will dictate what a nation has or doesn't have. The same will apply in space. If a planet is a lava planet, rich in heavy metals, they will likely be focused around that more, if a planet is heavily wooded with very little eco-damaging technology, you can bet that the type of ships they build will be entirely different, so will their ideas around how to build things, and their cultural technological output.

The world of earth is unique from nation to nation, and a dominant culture arose, from those dominate cultures came different forms of technolgy and different uses of materials. What if the scientific method (Rational thought and the process of approaching a problem) and the metric systems were never developed the way they were, fundamental technology would be radically different. What if mankind didn't have coal and oil, what would they have done to overcome these limitations.

May Player
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby May Player » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:06 pm

It's like in nature - some species will rise and others disappear from existence. New species will form.
As to the game, it all depends what options we activate when setting the game up. Old or young galaxy, mineral rich or nutrients rich, number of species etc. what interest me is how populated will the galaxy be with minor races on single planets and what skills they have etc. Something like city-states in Civ V would be just perfect for me..

Lupusam
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Re: What aspects should be same/different between the races?

Postby Lupusam » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:19 pm

The question becomes "How much does a change in how a race views the world, the resources available, or the cultures that developed in their homeworld, change what they would be able to invent?" yet as science progresses it becomes interlinked, so for any species in the space age to be able to ignore subsets of science would be odd... different species would make different choices with what they know, or what they have the resources for will change what would be viable to pursue, but gaping holes like "We never even considered the concept of anti-gravity, how do your engines work again?" would feel annoying.


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