Sharing Production with other Planets

Teleros
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Re: Sharing Production with other Planets

Postby Teleros » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:40 am

Belisarius wrote:1. How great is the need on the sink planet ... the larger the discrepancy between available jobs and population count of said type, the larger the incentive to move there

It's hard to determine this IMHO, hence why I'd prefer a little tick-box or w/e for "enable worker pop immigration to this colony" etc.

Belisarius wrote:2. The distance (the larger the distance between source and sink, the lesser the willingness to move there

Not necessarily. Lots of Europeans moved to the US & Australia back in the day, despite the enormous distances and time investment required.

Belisarius wrote:3. The living conditions (Source = Desert Planet, Sink = Gaia-Paradise ... very high willingness to move there ... Source = Terran world, Sink = Desert World ... rather not so high willingness to migrate there (at least if we consider humans)

Can't argue with that, at least for a non-police-state nation.

Belisarius wrote:4. Monetary Incentives ... to stimulate development of a world, the emperor/president/exalted leader should be able (for every plpanet in his realm) to set up a reward for population types moving there. Say: The next 3 scientist pop points who move to Planet A get 100 Credits each ... afterwards for the next 3 scientist pop points who migrate there after the arrival of each scientist pop point, 100 credits are taken out of the imperial coffers. This would be a (if expensive) way to populate worlds that are too far away from the main body of your empire (and would also be penalty on colonizing worlds too far away [as due to the distance, without monetary incentives, there would be only a small willingness of your existing population to move there] or which are rather not suitable for your race to colonize)

If you want to just move X worker pops there, use the MoO2-style colony screen + some freighters. I'm assuming MORE has both, seeing as how it's at heart a modern MoO2 clone.
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Merlex
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Re: Sharing Production with other Planets

Postby Merlex » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:21 pm

MetalKid wrote:2 clicks multiplied by 50 planets would not be fun. Also, if too many farmers got pulled, uh oh, we are starving now!


In MOO2, you could export food with freighters. This way, farm rich planets aren't wasted, on just high population. In Galactic Civilizations 2, you could not do this. Which made no sense. You may have a planet with one or two + 300% farming tiles, which could grow your population to 30 billion easy, but you would have to use up the rest of your tiles for morale. This left no room for factories or stock markets to take advantage of the high population. Having the ability to supply your manufacturing, economic and research planets with food, is better system imo.
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MetalKid
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Re: Sharing Production with other Planets

Postby MetalKid » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:57 pm

Merlex wrote:
MetalKid wrote:2 clicks multiplied by 50 planets would not be fun. Also, if too many farmers got pulled, uh oh, we are starving now!


In MOO2, you could export food with freighters. This way, farm rich planets aren't wasted, on just high population. In Galactic Civilizations 2, you could not do this. Which made no sense. You may have a planet with one or two + 300% farming tiles, which could grow your population to 30 billion easy, but you would have to use up the rest of your tiles for morale. This left no room for factories or stock markets to take advantage of the high population. Having the ability to supply your manufacturing, economic and research planets with food, is better system imo.


Well, in MOO2, there was no concept of tiles. You just kept building whatever you wanted on your planet because... hey, planets are huge! :D Also, you had to build Freighters in order for them to balance the supply. Could you try to load up one planet with massive farming and send it all out to other planets? Sure. Is it a good idea? No, because you'd need a massive number of freighters. Not only that, what happens when your planet gets blockaded and now no freighters are allowed through... Your enemy just has to wait a few turns and your population will be decimated...

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Re: Sharing Production with other Planets

Postby VenomStorm » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:16 pm

Hey Metal, I actually did just that in my MoO2 games. It would take some time of course, but eventually I would transfer my farming all to one huge, poor Terran or Gaia world. Late game my population would be so huge I would usually need one or two additional farming worlds but that was it. The strategy actually worked very well. Sure, I needed a lot of freighters, but I could easily devote a mediocre world to auto building freighters. And yes, there were times where an enemy managed to blockade my farming world. But guess what, I would just move a few population units around to cover the loss. Usually if I was relying on one main farming world, I had several other rich Terran worlds. For a few turns, I would have those Terran worlds make up the food discrepancy in my empire until my fleet could arrive and end the blockade. The advantage of this was that my rich and ultra rich worlds would be able to focus exclusively on industry and ship building and all my other worlds would research. I would have most of my worlds researching exclusively which allowed me to far outclass my opponent's tech.

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Re: Sharing Production with other Planets

Postby Belisarius » Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:14 am

Which, of course, is possible because in MoO2 you can (unrealistically) just switch your pops between science, industry and production and would immediately see results.
In a more realistic scenario the pop points would take a few turns (after their assignment) before they would become productive (with the unproductive turns being taken up with building the infrastructure (farms, factories for processsing and packaging the food and so on) and education of the workforce)

VenomStorm
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Re: Sharing Production with other Planets

Postby VenomStorm » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:55 pm

This is true. This is also where Omena inserts his planetary region idea to simply calculate and take all that restructuring into account.:P

Also, if there was a greater penalty for switching, I'd place a higher priority on my farming worlds. I would probably have a defense fleet stationed at or near my farming worlds to prevent empire wide starvation, panic, death, etc.

Sturmir
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Re: Sharing Production with other Planets

Postby Sturmir » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:41 pm

Well, for production and sharing thing, here's my two cents.

Money equates to the value of given goods. Production is a concept of what it takes to produce those goods. Now unless you mean transferring of partially finished goods to be completed somewhere else, that's not exactly viable. I mean, the energy wasted getting goods to space would be better off producing them on site of a planet. I mean, we're likely talking about Tens to hundreds of billions of people, and the consumption of goods on such a massive scale that it becomes impractical for a world of production to do anything but transport raw materials, finished goods, or food from one place to another. It's not like making Microchips in Thailand, Soldering them to motherboards in Taiwan, shipping them to the US to be put in a computer. We're talking about building chips in Thailand, blasting them off to the moon, finishing them on Titan. It's not worth it by any economic sense.
So if production was to be transferred from 1 planet to another, it'd be as a full product, not partial goods (IE, production points to finish certain things.) Perhaps being able to build simple colonisation modules. (Which I'm unsure if someone suggested earlier in the thread.) As something you could move onto a ships cargo bay. The colonisation module would be a simple all-in-one devise that's low-maintenance but high original cost, that is set up on site. it produces a bit of food and a bit of goods. This could jump start budding colonies, if you build larger colonisation ships, upon landing on a world, the ship get's converted to a number of modules based on the size of the colony ship. This way you eliminate "rushing" using money and the need for production sharing. Eventually the world will develop actual economic infrastructure and join the empire on a galactic scale and when this happens, those modules wouldn't produce enough goods to be worth their maintenance and perhaps a "Scrap all Colony Modules" button could recycle some of that material (or move them forward to additional colonisation efforts.)

As for sharing population. Would a world really be drained of people in the event of colonisation efforts to the point of endangering other parts of the empire? I mean, I'm still quite unsure of the scale we're talking about here, but if the empire's ships don't represent the civilian sector for ship production and trade, could a world even lose, say, a billion workers even to go to a new world to work and build new lives?

If planet A has 10,000,000,000 and Planet B has 1,000,000 people... truly what sort of global effort would have to be made, how many tens of thousands (or massive size ships) would be required to divert to drain enough people from planet A to planet B to endanger the planet. So except for player diversion of population, natural growth for planets should be based on an empire's modifiers, racial modifiers, and a flat planetary appeal (to account for the ability to colonize, and terraform) and some population should be drawn from nearby planets with higher population. Distance would also deter larger numbers of people from being drawn from halfway across the galaxy. it's not a month-long ship ride from London to New York, it's a galactic trip. Sure, some families will make the journey, some probably representing 1-5% of the population. A population that could soar up to 10-50 billion people. It becomes rather insignificant and tedious to even account at that level. Not to mention, especially if we're accounting for humans. If you're on a desert world you either like it there, you're forced to be there, the job pays reaaaallly well, you don't have the financial means to leave or... you would have left anyways... So you can't really judge that sort of appeal for why a specific planet would be chosen to draw population from. You could say that the other worlds are "filled up" and you couldn't really go there... but in terms of the billions, individuals don't really matter, and populations are likely moving from 1 planet to another constantly through "civilian means" (unless you are a tyrannical police state which controls population movements.) but even still, if you want trade, you're not stopping your freighters, and troops. Troops have families, and it's likely a big mess which doesn't truly need to add to the complexity of calculations going on in the game.

TL:DR

Colonisation Catch-all Module that you can load into freighters and any ship with cargo space, drop off on the world. bam, instant New-World Factory/Farming Equipment.
Pack them up or Recycle them when you're done with 'em.

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Re: Sharing Production with other Planets

Postby May Player » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:45 am

Sharing production with other panets - usually the simplest approach is much better than micromanagement. Why not have 'support routes'? Depending on the size of the empire, there could be several or more support routes available to use. Once selected, such a route would be active for a number of turns, maybe 10 to 20. After that it coud be re-selected or changed. A 'support route' could push goods, food and generate income at the same time.

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Re: Sharing Production with other Planets

Postby ANGLVD3TH » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:25 pm

I'm not so sure about production sharing, would be incredibly inefficient unless perhaps it remains in-system. If it gets in, I would think that it would be limited to same star system at a penalty, until a research is completed that allows you to build a stargate like structure. Then a (very) lategame tech unlocks a galaxy wide stargate net, maybe requiring each gate to be within a certain distance. For example. If you want to move production from a colony on one side of the galaxy to the other, you would need to daisy chain of gates through the galaxy. There may or may not be a lag between sending and receiving. Or point to point, like the "real" stargates.

VenomStorm
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Re: Sharing Production with other Planets

Postby VenomStorm » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:10 am

Yea I agree that production should really be shared in system. I like the thought of late game tech that might make it possible to share production across the galaxy. But until that point, it would not be cost efficient.


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